Re: The Elder Scrolls Online

by **Tim Hortans** Sat May 12, 2012 4:29 am

But we're not saying we want a class system, you are.

All we want is there to be no limit on the amount of perks you can get. That way, the people who want to be amazing at everything and be totally overpowered CAN, and the people like you who want to be restricted to whatever play style you decide early on CAN STILL DO THAT.

Your solution pisses people off (digdog) and our solution doesn't piss anyone off (except you because it hurts your head).

by Peregrine Sat May 12, 2012 4:32 am

I don't even have to be amazing at everything. I was happy in Morrowind before there was anything even resembling a perk when training up my skills meant only that I could DO everything.

by **Cial** Sat May 12, 2012 4:36 am

Giving players the ability to do EVERYTHING isn't an RPG, it's a grinding game to get all of your skills to 100% so you can roleplay being a demigod, which takes relying on skills out of the picture and just makes it a sandbox "kill everything" simulator.

by **DigDog** Sat May 12, 2012 4:40 am

> "Giving players the ability to do EVERYTHING isn't an RPG"
> "get all of your skills to 100% so you can roleplay being a demigod"

You contradict yourself my friend.

by **Cial** Sat May 12, 2012 4:41 am

Being a demigod isn't role playing though, it's playing a game to see how fast you can erradicate all life from the world.

by **DigDog** Sat May 12, 2012 4:42 am

How the hell is that not roleplaying? Are you going to tell me how I am supposed to roleplay?

by **Tim Hortans** Sat May 12, 2012 4:43 am

ITT: Cial teaches us how to play videogames, the right way.

by Peregrine Sat May 12, 2012 4:43 am

Little does Cial realize the player character in Morrowind was a demigod.

Oh and the player character in Skyrim has the soul of a dragon.

BUT NO

YOU WANT TO HAVE POINTS IN ONE-HANDED, ARCHERY, LIGHT ARMOUR, SNEAK AND CONJURATION?

FINE BUT DON'T EXPECT TO BE ABLE TO SPEAK WELL.

BEING ABLE TO CONJURE DEMONS AND ASSASSINATE PEOPLE IS ONE THING, BUT GET BETTER PRICES WITH SHOPKEEPERS?

LET'S KEEP IT REALISTIC GUYS.

by **Cial** Sat May 12, 2012 4:43 am

It's not roleplaying because you aren't playing a role, you're playing Galactus.

by **DigDog** Sat May 12, 2012 4:45 am

Roleplaying Galactus isn't roleplaying, it's beef jerky. The more you know.

Spoiler: Playing anything that isn't you is roleplaying, because you play a role.

by **Tim Hortans** Sat May 12, 2012 4:46 am

STOP HAVING FUN GUYS IT'S NOT FAIR YOU'RE ONLY ALLOWED TO HAVE FUN EXACTLY LIKE I'M HAVING FUN ANY OTHER WAY ISN'T FUN!

by Peregrine Sat May 12, 2012 4:47 am

I'd rather role-playing as Galactus than as a stubborn fanboy.

by **Cial** Sat May 12, 2012 4:48 am

What I mean is if everyone has every skill and every perk, by that point the game is pretty much over. It becomes just a straight FPS and has no point because you can finish every quest and pass every speech check with no effort.

by **DigDog** Sat May 12, 2012 4:50 am

If you grind all your skills to 100 in the first dungeon you encounter, sure it is. But that's your own fault then. If you play regularly though it then you get to be the demigod by the end of the game and, oh boy, by the end of the game the game is pretty much over.

Also who says I can't play my Skyrim as an FPS if I want to? It's hilarious to one-shot bandits with a thunderbolt. And guess what, that's still roleplaying.

by Peregrine Sat May 12, 2012 4:51 am

Cial wrote:It becomes just a straight FPS

by **Tim Hortans** Sat May 12, 2012 4:52 am

I can't even argue anymore because Cial is literally being so stupid

by Mrsebi Sat May 12, 2012 5:02 am

Skyrim in my opinion is... psuedo sandbox. Sure, they market it as an open world where you can do whatever you want, train however you want, go anywhere, get married, get a house, expansive storyline, etc.
But then look closer, and you realize that it's more of an empty box where they tossed in three cups of sand, you CAN play with it, but... it's limited.
The class system is restrictive, the house can't actually be modified. A ton of the open world is empty space that still forces you to find the one hidden path up the mountain or glitch your way up it. And why the hell would you get married?
As for the storyline, it's fairly basic, rest is just filler. Honestly, I've yet to explore half the cities, and I don't want to: every quest so far has been: ''go to location X, kill everything around it/in it or go to location x, fight your way to the end of it, get an item, then take the exit.''
It's just... large and unrefined, quantity over quality. And the quantity is deceptive.

by Peregrine Sat May 12, 2012 5:12 am

Sebi I think you really hit the nail on the head. Earlier today I mentioned to DigDog I felt Skyrim lacked something that other elder scrolls games had. I said I didn't like the radiant quests because they were boring but I felt it was more than that, and now I realize what it was. Even the big quests lack the variety and depth of previous games.

by **Cial** Sat May 12, 2012 5:21 am

Sure, at the end, you should be insanely strong. You still can be in Skyrim. Yes, not all your skills will have all the perks, but the ones that matter hopefully will, and you'll be able to hold your own in any fight with any weapon you have. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. And I'm not saying having all the perks wouldn't be fun to people. The thing is, most likely, you'll have a favorite weapon or spell or plan-of-attack. Your skills will most likely reflect that.

Unfortunately, not everyone can be served how they wish. So, why I say perks weren't a very bad idea is it takes on the issue of grinded overpowered characters early on (which definitely happened in Morrowind and Oblivion) with a simple approach that affects many angles. For one, the perks are once per level and require some prerequisites. That helps deter people from exploiting a glitch to just get all the extra perks in one sitting. Second, it rewards players for practicing the skills they want to use most throughout the game. Third, it allows players who don't necessarily want some skills in the tree to skip them over and place their point in the ones they want most.

I'm not saying 80 points is enough, because there are some traits that I've taken that I had to choose between two or more of different perks to finally decide on one. Maybe next time pushing the amount to two per level or adding a perk to have two or more per level (Like in Fallout 3) would make everyone happy.

by Peregrine Sat May 12, 2012 5:28 am

You're right. So what if they made one subpar game? I'm sure they'll learn from their mistakes and get it right next time.

In the meantime though we have a new MMO to look forward to.

by **Cial** Sat May 12, 2012 5:44 am

But Bethesda isn't forced by EA.

by **DigDog** Sat May 12, 2012 5:55 am

Cial wrote:So, why I say perks weren't a very bad idea is it takes on the issue of grinded overpowered characters early on (which definitely happened in Morrowind and Oblivion) with a simple approach that affects many angles.

But why limit character development? Just to deter some exploiters? They'll find other ways to exploit stuff, like the alchemy/enchantment exploit we have in Skyrim. So are they going to limit Alchemy and Enchanting in the next game?

If people want to exploit and make ridiculous characters at the beginning of the game, they will always find a way to do so. And it's their own fault if they do that and ruin their gameplay experience.

I just want one good reason why it is a good idea to have a limited amount of perks instead of being able to get all of them.

by **Cial** Sat May 12, 2012 6:04 am

I thought it was pretty nice being able to choose which ones you want. In Oblivion you basically just got one when you became a journeyman or master of a skill. in Skyrim they usually gave you a few options to choose from.

by **DigDog** Sat May 12, 2012 7:52 am

That's not a good reason to limit them though.

by **Erik** Sat May 12, 2012 8:15 am

Athleticism and Acrobatics.

Sword fighting combat in Skyrim is boring as spit. Maybe that was my problem with the game...

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