Re: Under-appreciated Games

by **Rage** Thu May 17, 2012 12:22 am

You must sell all your possessions and give the money to me.

We will use the money to create... the... boat.

We will then ride on... the... boat... through the universe,

on sunshine and fairy-tales.

by **DigDog** Thu May 17, 2012 1:15 am

Cial wrote:It's not even that criminal. The company doesn't lose a sale, because I'm getting it from a 3rd party. However, if I like it and have the money, I'll buy it.

It's not like every pirated game is stealing, because it's not. The developer looses no money from people who download their game from a pirate site, because it was never a physical copy in the first place.

Not every theft has to be physical. You are taking something that someone invested many hours of labor into, without their consent, and you don't give them anything in return. It doesn't matter if it's a physical thing or not, it is still a thing because it wouldn't exist if the developers didn't create it. And if you take it without their consent, it's theft.

It's like riding the bus or metro without paying. "But officer, the seat wasn't occupied and would have been empty if I wasn't sitting there. The company didn't lose anything." Nope, it's still theft.

Plus it's more likely that you buy the game if there is no way to pirate it, even if it's just a tiny bit more likely. Fact.

by **Cial** Thu May 17, 2012 2:16 am

It's still not wrong to pirate. Especially if it's bigger budget games. Because :

1. Some people can't always fork over $40-60 to play a game that might not appeal to them.

2. Nobody looses money from people pirating, because you'te downloading a copy, not part of physical limited stock.

3. Games shouldn't just be made to make money if they're meant to be art. Meaning if you're proud of what you make it shouldn't matter how someone gets it if they enjoy it. Artists don't complain if someone looks at their art online rather than at a gallery.

Making things that "prevent" piracy doesn't help either. Pirates will find a way and the only person it hurts then are the people who can afford to buy the game.

by **DigDog** Thu May 17, 2012 2:38 am

1. Some people can't always fork over $40-60 to play a game that might not appeal to them.

That's what trailers, videos and reviews are for. And if you don't have the money then maybe you should look for a less expensive hobby rather than stealing stuff. You clearly have enough money to pay for your internet access and computer equipment, so don't pull the boohoo I'm too poor to buy games crap. If you don't like paying $50 for a game, wait a year or two, the price will be halved by then. Or just do something else. Go outside, that's free.

2. Nobody looses money from people pirating, because you'te downloading a copy, not part of physical limited stock.

Yes, people lose money, even if it's not the ones you pirated the game from. If you pirate a game and play it for free, you spend your time on it. Time you could be spending on a purchased product instead, which would net someone money. So pirating games and spending time on them costs someone money. Not to mention that people spent time and money to create the thing you're stealing and using for free.

3. Games shouldn't just be made to make money if they're meant to be art. Meaning if you're proud of what you make it shouldn't matter how someone gets it if they enjoy it. Artists don't complain if someone looks at their art online rather than at a gallery.

Holy crap this is insanely stupid. Yes, Skyrim is truly meant to be art. Same with every single game out there. And all the hundreds of people that worked to create that game over the last few years should just suck it up and be happy that people even bother to play it. The developers who sunk millions of dollars into creating their game should just let people play it for free, because they don't make games to make money, they make games to make the world a better place.

by **Tim Hortans** Thu May 17, 2012 2:57 am

Hey cial, are you saying if you pirate a game on steam it's not stealing because theres no physical, limited stock?

by **Erik** Thu May 17, 2012 3:14 am

Lots of games are already losing tons of money because the AAA games set such a high bar to compete with, they attempt to make games by spending tons of money and plan to make tons of money. Lots of games try that, but not all of them can win, and many companies are losing money because some people pirate their games. They are satisfied and don't spend any more money.

Related:

by **Cial** Thu May 17, 2012 3:21 am

No, nobody looses money from piracy. They only get money from the people who actually buy it. People who pirate aren't stealing money from the company, they're playing a copy of the game that was never part of a sale. It doesn't cost the company any money to create a digital copy, and it doesn't cost pirates to create one either.

Not all games have reliable trailers/reviews either. The game could be newer with not a lot of information about it to form a strong opinion. Also, some people don't actually know if they will like a game from just Youtube videos and reviews, they'd need to actually play the game to know.

And yes, if I made something and people really enjoyed it after pirating, I would be happy because a.) Those people might be more inclined to pay if they support it or would pay for a sequel. and b.) Someone would be entertained by or appreciating something I worked hard to make for that exact reason.

But really, you shouldn't give a crap about whether or not someone pirates. They're not forcing you to, it's their choice, and you can be just happy and dandy forking over your money to game. They'll be happy pirating a game to play it for free, and neither of your choices affects the other.

by **Rage** Thu May 17, 2012 3:27 am

Hey guys, I just made an awesome 3D model. I'll be putting it up on Turbosquid or something to hopefully earn a bit of money for it while others are able to use my work in their own projects.

Hey, how come I only had, like, one sale, but I see people using my model in all sorts of stuff?

Oh... guess it's beans for dinner again.
Under-appreciated Games - Page 3 Title-ant_link

Under-appreciated Games - Page 3 Title-ant_link

by **Tim Hortans** Thu May 17, 2012 3:42 am

If a homeless man is on the street and you dont give him food, he wont die because you weren't going to give him food anyways!

by **DigDog** Thu May 17, 2012 3:49 am

Man, everyone loved the game I created, look at all that positive feedback! Too bad I'm bankrupt now because only a quarter of the people who played and loved my game actually paid for playing it.

by **Erik** Thu May 17, 2012 3:50 am

Realistically, if people can legally attain something for free, they will take it for free and not spend extra money. If guilt didn't factor into the Humble Bundles, the average pay would be $.01 every time. Respect is not enough to make people pay for something, and definitely not enough for somebody to make a living off of. I guarantee that if you put up two identical games side-by-side, and put one as $60 and the other as free, over 90% of the people will take the free one. You would need to provide a cheap product not even worth the money that is still entertaining to profit off of it. The only reason people don't simply use each other's Minecraft accounts is because they can't play together if they do that.

by **Cial** Thu May 17, 2012 3:54 am

As I said before, just because it's free doesn't mean people won't be willing to buy it later. Almost all of the pirates I know do the same thing, which is buying the game again if they like it later. It's a better system than blindly buying a game based on reviews and trailers.

by **DigDog** Thu May 17, 2012 4:00 am

Meanwhile developers go bankrupt and people are fired because the initial sales weren't high enough to appease the publishers.

by **Cial** Thu May 17, 2012 4:14 am

That's the fault of the publishers, then. If they want more money, they should make better games or make them more accessible to their customers.

If you want to stop piracy, do a better job with your service. That's why Steam works so well. I have over 100 games bought on my Steam, and that's not counting my PS3 games. You know why? It's a fact that games during Steam sales are purchased more and developers get more money.

The point is: Lower your prices, make a good game, and you'll get money. Don't jack your prices up to $60 for every mediocre annual installment.

Seriously though. Get the hell back on track. This is stupid.

by **Tim Hortans** Thu May 17, 2012 4:15 am

Cial you keep saying theres a higher chance to buy a game after pirating but that doesn't make sense. If I already have the game for free, why would I pay money for it?

by **Cial** Thu May 17, 2012 4:22 am

Support. It's voting with your money.

by **Tim Hortans** Thu May 17, 2012 4:23 am

Yeah but nobody does that.

by **Cial** Thu May 17, 2012 4:26 am

Plenty of people do it. It's the same people who pirate Ubisoft games because of the always-on DRM.

by **Erik** Thu May 17, 2012 4:39 am

My friend has torrented more than The Binding of Isaac, Terraria, Minecraft, Super Meat Boy, Amnesia: The Dark Descent, Saints Row 3, and Batman: Arkham City. He enjoyed all of them very much, and never has and never will buy any of them. This is the same with the majority of the minority of people who acquire their games by illegally pirating. BUT NO, EVEN THE U.S. GOVERNMENT IS SMART ENOUGH TO SAY ITS ILLEGAL, IT MUST BE A GOOD IDEA TO PIRATE GAMES.

You don't pay if you like a game. You pay for the privilege to play a game, if you like it or not is your own opinion. Games are made for a targeted audience.

by **Cial** Thu May 17, 2012 4:49 am

Erik wrote:My friend has torrented more than The Binding of Isaac, Terraria, Minecraft, Super Meat Boy, Amnesia: The Dark Descent, Saints Row 3, and Batman: Arkham City. He enjoyed all of them very much, and never has and never will buy any of them. This is the same with the majority of the minority of people who acquire their games by illegally pirating. BUT NO, EVEN THE U.S. GOVERNMENT IS SMART ENOUGH TO SAY ITS ILLEGAL, IT MUST BE A GOOD IDEA TO PIRATE GAMES.

You don't pay if you like a game. You pay for the privilege to play a game, if you like it or not is your own opinion. Games are made for a targeted audience.

Three things:

1. Your friend obviously falls under the category of pirate who just does it because it's free.

2. It is pretty much illegal, if you're caught.

3. Your 2nd point is pointing out a bullshit business model. Why should I have to pay for a game if I don't like it when I play it?

by Onion Supreme Thu May 17, 2012 4:59 am

Oh wait, you said 95% of your games are pirated? And all your music? That means you hardly ever support any creator. I agree with your core argument but you don't live up to it. You sicken me.

On a tangential note, this kick-starter trend seems rather relevant here. I don't know much about it but it looks like people supporting creators only on the basis of trust and respect, like with the SMBC thing.

by **DigDog** Thu May 17, 2012 5:17 am

2. It is pretty much illegal, if you're caught.

It is illegal, no matter if you're caught or not. Not being caught only means that you don't have to face the repercussions of your illegal actions.

Why should I have to pay for a game if I don't like it when I play it?

Why should you have to pay for a movie you don't like when you watch it? Why should you have to pay for a meal you don't like when you eat it? Because that's how it works, that's why. You pay for the ability to use it, regardless if you like it or not. And if you buy a game you don't like then the fault is on your part for not having properly researched if you will like that game or not. There are plenty of trailers and reviews out there for every game, it's your own fault if you don't read or watch them before buying anything. Don't blame that one the developers.

by **Cial** Thu May 17, 2012 5:20 am

I do support creators. I've said this a few times. I pirate most of my games before buying them.

I pirate music because there's no easy service that charges a reasonable fee.

Scumbag Dig
>Complains about how bad Skyrim is.
>Lectures that it's your own fault if you buy a game without doing research.

Please do not double post
~Erik

by **Tim Hortans** Thu May 17, 2012 5:40 am

Dig bought skyrim following his own policy. He wasn't happy with it. But he didn't break the law.

by **DigDog** Thu May 17, 2012 5:45 am

I pirate music because there's no easy service that charges a reasonable fee.

> tunechecker.com
> legalsounds.com
> rhapsody.com
> google.com

Scumbag Dig
>Complains about how bad Skyrim is.
>Lectures that it's your own fault if you buy a game without doing research.

Where did I say Skyrim is bad? It has flaws, but it's still a reasonably good game otherwise I wouldn't have sunk, let me check, holy crap, 154 hours into it so far.

Just because I don't fanboy squee over it like you do and instead admit that it has flaws doesn't mean I think it's a bad game.

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